September 25, 2013

Bismark as a Pole

This does not seem realistic at first glance. However, if  these two were to get  together and didn't kill each other it would be a formidable economic and military power.

Lech Walesa has called for Poland to unite with Germany to form one European state, despite the bloody history between the two countries

Holy Hanseatic League!

Slavs and Germans have not historically gotten along. (the Hapsburg Empire being something of a qualified exception) but good lord, this would be an economic powerhouse right off the bat and could be a major military power in a few years.

This would make an interesting if unlikely scenario for a speculative future history, especially if the Eurozone's continuing feckless meltdown caused Austria and Slovenia and just one or two of the Slavic countries to jump on the bandwagon, you'd have a huge industrial juggernaut from the Adriatic to the North Sea. Austria-Hungary reborn, but far more formidable.

Russia would likely be most annoyed.


Posted by: The Brickmuppet at 07:18 PM | Comments (8) | Add Comment
Post contains 164 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Russia would most likely be most annoyed. peeing their pants in fear.

I fixed that for you.

Posted by: Wonderduck at Wed Sep 25 21:21:45 2013 (dM817)

2 The Russians fought off the Nazis and Napoleon's myrmidons so I'm thinking they'll have no trouble keeping their heads and dispose of their vodka in approved locations. They've got a LOT of strategic depth for one thing.

It would complicate things for them a bit.

Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Wed Sep 25 21:50:33 2013 (F7DdT)

3 And you know, they could fill in that odd concavity by annexing the Czech republic....

Posted by: Mauser at Thu Sep 26 03:47:34 2013 (TJ7ih)


The nation of Prussia was about like that from the time of Frederick the Great until WWI, didn't you know? Poland as we now know it was created in the Treaty of Versailles. Part of why Hitler could convince the Germans it was a good idea to invade Poland was that Germans thought of that territory as theirs. (Since Imperial "Germany" was essentially a modern version of Prussia, ruled from Berlin by descendants of the Prussian royal line.)

Hitler's invasion came from both east and west; a lot of the force had been prepositioned in Konigsberg. Before WWI, Konigsberg was connected by land to Berlin and the rest of Germany. There was something called "The Duchy of Warsaw", but it was landlocked.

Oh, and the Czech Republic was part of Prussia before WWI, too. Only then it was known as "Bohemia".

Most of Hitler's early invasions were to take back territory they had lost in the Treaty of Versailles, and Poland was the biggest chunk of that. (Also Alsace-Lorraine, for instance.)

Given that Germany's fangs seem to have been pulled, a German/Poland confederation would be pretty neat. But Germany has only just recovered from absorbing East Germany; I can't imagine the Germans would be very eager to absorb another huge territory full of poverty.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Thu Sep 26 10:07:39 2013 (+rSRq)

5 Steven, the ethnographic character of east-central Europe - what Timothy Snyder called so appropriately "the Bloodlands" - was radically changed by the cumulative catastrophes of 1936-1954.  Stalin, Stalin's post-war mini-mes, and the Nazis between them did a titanic job of shifting or blotting out entire populations in those two decades.  The Polish heartlands used to extend half-way to Kiev, and Silesia, Pomerania and the old Kingdom of Prussia had been German for centuries.  By the mid-Fifties, the surviving Poles had been moved out of "Western Ukraine" to replace the Germans ethnically cleansed from the formerly German provinces that now made up Communist Poland.  

(Bohemia was never Prussian, btw - it was part of the Hapsburg domains.  Unless you're thinking of Silesia, which is adjacent to but not part of the Kingdom of  Bohemia, not since Frederick the Great seized it in one of his wars against the Austrians.)

Lech Walesa is probably looking at all those new old-folks-homes for German expats springing up all over Poland, and calculating that the Poles could demographically dominate a commonwealth with the Germans in a couple generations.  Although the numbers don't look good to *me* - as of 2011, Poland's fertility rate is under Germany's, which is quite a negative accomplishment - between the two of them, they're hugging the bottom of the charts. Even Japan is doing better.

Posted by: Mitch H. at Thu Sep 26 10:54:39 2013 (jwKxK)


I wasn't aware that there had been substantial "ethnic cleansing" in that area.

I feel sorry for the ethnic Germans who are left in Kaliningrad, and had the misfortune to become part of Russia.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Thu Sep 26 16:35:19 2013 (+rSRq)

7 Personally, I still want to see the Lithuanian Empire make a comeback. But mostly because Litvak pastries rule even that dessert-loving corner of the world.

Posted by: Suburbanbanshee at Thu Sep 26 22:47:10 2013 (cvXSV)

8 This reminds me of a joke I heard back when the two Germanies first started talking about reunification:

If West Germany is going east at 15 kilometers per hour, and East Germany is going west at 10 kilometers per hour, where will the border with Poland end up?

Posted by: Siergen at Fri Sep 27 15:56:58 2013 (Ao4Kw)

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