April 13, 2022
A Note of Caution
So there are reports that Russian forces in Ukraine have used poison gas.
This is believable on the face of it given the reporting we have been getting because the Russians are somewhat stymied and they did this before in Syria, on the orders on the new commander of the Ukraine offensive.
However...
Reports are sketchy and the unit that the Daily Mail article says is reporting the incident is the Azov Battalion. The Azov Battalion is a militia group that are staffed with Nazis.
No, not libertarians that lefties are just CALLING NAZIs, or parents who don't want their daughters raped, or individualists or capitalists or classical liberals. The AZOV battalion consists of actual, unironic, motherfucking NAZIS. National Socialists are not reliable primary sources.
So let the fog-of-war clear a bit before loosing ones head.
And stock up on all the non-perishables you can.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at
07:00 PM
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They did not do it in Syria. It was a complete fabrication. Just like this time.
BTW, what do you think about Russians losing the flagship of their Black Sea Fleet to a missile strike? I think that was some lulz.
BTW, what do you think about Russians losing the flagship of their Black Sea Fleet to a missile strike? I think that was some lulz.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at Wed Apr 13 23:56:06 2022 (LZ7Bg)
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I thought it was funny to joke about "Ukrainian missiles have struck Moscow, and destroyed it." Plus playing on the city/ship ambiguity to say that the Americans were pussies for not nuking Moscow the city back during the Cold War.
There's actually a serious possible consequence, because Biden is senile enough that he may have forgotten the end of the Cold War. If he hasn't pushed through the launch of a 'preemptive' strike to 'prevent' the hypothetical Russian 'retaliatory' nuclear launch, it is probably not going to happen, so lulz should be safely purely humorous.
Leslie Fish has written lyrics for a Filk about it.
Re: gas
I think Russian logistics were already quite strained without needing to get gas into the Ukraine, supplying gas would have needed commitment by the leadership to atrocity well ahead of time, and that with that commitment, a great deal of atrocity could be carried out with simple small airs. If there had been gas use, we would also expect other things to be done worth condemnation, that would be much easier to prove.
Posted by: PatBuckman at Thu Apr 14 12:51:16 2022 (r9O5h)
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And I forgot to post with javascript on so that my carriage returns would be preserved.
*sigh*
Posted by: PatBuckman at Thu Apr 14 12:52:22 2022 (r9O5h)
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Based in Naval News' reporting, we are not sure what happened to Moskva except there was an explosion (Possibly caused by the Ukrainians.), damage was severe enough for the entire crew to be evacuated, and the cruiser stayed afloat for a while before sinking. We are not even sure what caused it, since Ukraine did not officially have any surface-launched anti-ship missiles yet.
The Russians did make it easier for something to happen to Moskva, since it had been operating on a fairly predictable pattern since the war began. I think that it will probably not have much practical effect on Russian operations at sea beyond what have been going on right now (Moskva did not have the surface to surface missiles the Russians have been bombarding Ukrainian targets with, and while her area air defense systems had a provided a large radius of coverage, the cruiser was not the only ship in the Black Sea Fleet capable of doing that.), it will anger the Russians enough to react harshly in some form.
The Russians did make it easier for something to happen to Moskva, since it had been operating on a fairly predictable pattern since the war began. I think that it will probably not have much practical effect on Russian operations at sea beyond what have been going on right now (Moskva did not have the surface to surface missiles the Russians have been bombarding Ukrainian targets with, and while her area air defense systems had a provided a large radius of coverage, the cruiser was not the only ship in the Black Sea Fleet capable of doing that.), it will anger the Russians enough to react harshly in some form.
Posted by: cxt217 at Thu Apr 14 19:43:24 2022 (MuaLM)
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I've been on the RFS Moskva, (Back when it was named Slava) it was a pretty impressive ship, and I was surprised how much armor was evident. However, without elaborating too much, I noticed a few things that indicate the Russians don't understand a lot about damage control.
@cxt217 The fog of war disclaimers certainly apply here. But I don't think a Slava class cruiser just spontaneously combusted. Note that the Ukrainians do have a fairly effective home-grown anti-ship missile, the Neptune.
@cxt217 The fog of war disclaimers certainly apply here. But I don't think a Slava class cruiser just spontaneously combusted. Note that the Ukrainians do have a fairly effective home-grown anti-ship missile, the Neptune.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Thu Apr 14 20:23:21 2022 (5iiQK)
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It is the state of Russian damage control, maintenance, and/or manufacturing standards that makes it quite possible that something non-Ukrainian related happened aboard the Moskva to total her. I do not think we have enough information to say what it is - as much as I want the Ukrainians to win, I sure do not trust anything the Ukrainians say unless someone else backs it up.
Naval News report the Neptune has not actually gone into service yet with the Ukrainians. It was apparently scheduled for this month before things went to crap. Note that there were no confirmed use or even sightings of the Neptune being fielded at all prior to claims it was used against the Moskva, which led a lot of people to wonder what the Ukrainians were doing.
Naval News report the Neptune has not actually gone into service yet with the Ukrainians. It was apparently scheduled for this month before things went to crap. Note that there were no confirmed use or even sightings of the Neptune being fielded at all prior to claims it was used against the Moskva, which led a lot of people to wonder what the Ukrainians were doing.
Posted by: cxt217 at Thu Apr 14 22:48:20 2022 (MuaLM)
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First photos from the rescue vessels were published today and it looks like cxt won a prize: no damage consistent with a hit by a missile or missiles is visible, but a fire in the main engine is fairly evident. As far as what "magazine" blew up later, it could be the stores for the AK-630.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at Sun Apr 17 22:02:45 2022 (LZ7Bg)
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