July 19, 2009
Chocolate Cornets are Best if not Consumed in Raspberry Heaven
Some months ago I finished watching the last of the Lucky Star TV series. Due to life issues, a review has been languishing in draft form for just about as long. Rather more recently, I watched the entirety of Azu Manga Daioh, having previously only seen the first half. Both of the shows are quite similar on the face of it:
Both are based on 4 panel comic strips.
Both follow a group of girls through the three years of Japanese highschool.
Both have fairly dry humor, similar in tone to Shulz's Peanuts.
Both have likely been reviewed in depth by every blog that features any anime reviews on this side of Antarctica save this one.
However, I found the tone and rewatchability of the shows quite different.
more...
Both are based on 4 panel comic strips.
Both follow a group of girls through the three years of Japanese highschool.
Both have fairly dry humor, similar in tone to Shulz's Peanuts.
Both have likely been reviewed in depth by every blog that features any anime reviews on this side of Antarctica save this one.
However, I found the tone and rewatchability of the shows quite different.
more...
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at
03:22 PM
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Post contains 1324 words, total size 9 kb.
1
A bold premise, stated forthrightly, sir! I shall watch the responses... on closed-circuit video... in a bomb-proof bunker 23 miles away from the "event". ;p
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at Mon Jul 20 21:49:27 2009 (pWQz4)
2
I am afraid that I disagree with your opinion.
Posted by: Wonderduck at Mon Jul 20 23:47:42 2009 (Duio9)
3
Seriously, dude, do you even read what Steven wrote? Awarding Kagura the most advancement is the dumbest review idea ever.
Also, how can you review Lucky Star without Lucky Channel? That shit was worse than Kimura by 1.8km. What selective memory!
Also, how can you review Lucky Star without Lucky Channel? That shit was worse than Kimura by 1.8km. What selective memory!
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at Tue Jul 21 00:22:12 2009 (/ppBw)
4
Interesting... it's been quite a while since I watched Azumanga, but I remember being bored by the Chiyo-dad sequences as well as the New Year's Dream episode (episodes?). Can't really relate to the rest of your complaints, though. Kaorin in particular was such a one-dimensional character that I never pitied her.
Lucky Star has a lot of flaws, but once you've gotten to know the cast it makes a first-class comfort anime.
Lucky Star has a lot of flaws, but once you've gotten to know the cast it makes a first-class comfort anime.
Posted by: Andrew F. at Tue Jul 21 07:00:06 2009 (d5+fR)
5
I'm not saying Azumanga sucks, it kept my intrest for nearly all of 6
dvd's. Azuma is, after all, exceedingly talented. The unlikeability of
several characters put me off towards the end and, for me, its
rewatchability is low
I agree that Kaorin is a one trick pony and the least fleshed out of the girls, however the crap she puts up with from Kimura is pretty awfull. That isn't the only reason she elicits sympathy of course. Just about everyone can relate to the heartbreak of unrequited love.
...can't they?
...or.....am I the only one who has had that happen?
Oh dear..I suddenly feel so utterly alone....
.
Kaorin in particular was such a one-dimensional character that I never pitied her.
I agree that Kaorin is a one trick pony and the least fleshed out of the girls, however the crap she puts up with from Kimura is pretty awfull. That isn't the only reason she elicits sympathy of course. Just about everyone can relate to the heartbreak of unrequited love.
...can't they?
...or.....am I the only one who has had that happen?
Oh dear..I suddenly feel so utterly alone....
.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Tue Jul 21 08:53:30 2009 (+QU+M)
6
Criticizing Azumanga Daioh is the third-rail of this hobby. That's the only review I've ever written, posted, and then taken down again because of all the crap thrown at me for my opinion -- which pretty much agreed with yours.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Tue Jul 21 09:02:06 2009 (+rSRq)
7
Uhhh...a little... a loooong time ago...something about wanting a varmint rifle Is all I remember..I avoided most reviews because I was avoiding spoilers as I had the thin pack for a time and intended to watch it. I never saw SDBs full review because he got rid of it. (I think a bunch of angry Slavs invaded his comment section or something
)
Actually the review idea was that I find Lucky Star more rewatchable than AzuManga, which I must say is an awesome idea, chock full of win!
As to the question of Kagura, I agree that she is not well developed as a character. We know very little about her as she has little screen time and, like Kaorin seems to be included as a foil.
However, she is the only one who really grows and changes. This is most obvious in the scene with the tent where she apologizes for her asshattery and offers to rebuild the thing herself (to the scorn of Tomo). She also buckles down quite noticeably in her studies towards the end and seems to mellow on her competitive streak a little. The character changes over time, in this case for the better. Most of the other girls have stuff happen to them, and we find out more about their quirks...they are fleshed out far better. However, the others don't really change or grow emotionally, except perhaps Sakaki and her changes are less pronounced.
Also, how can you review Lucky Star without Lucky Channel? That shit was worse than Kimura by 1.8km.
I disagreeI feel that a 30 something man wanting to kindle a romance with his unwilling 17 year old student is worse than an amusing bipolar jaded celebrity by a full nautical mile. Now in fairness, when I sawLucky Channel first on a fan sub, my response was "WTF is THIS CRAP!?!1!". However, Sam Reigel and Stephane Sheh did a fine job with it in the dub.
I found it amusing.
A lot of people didn't.
But, it is sufficiently detached from the show proper that I'd think anyone who didn't like it could just hit "SKIP" and be none the worse. Their stupidity is not integral to the story proper except for a few gags.
Seriously, dude, do you even read what Steven wrote?
Uhhh...a little... a loooong time ago...something about wanting a varmint rifle Is all I remember..I avoided most reviews because I was avoiding spoilers as I had the thin pack for a time and intended to watch it. I never saw SDBs full review because he got rid of it. (I think a bunch of angry Slavs invaded his comment section or something
)Awarding Kagura the most advancement is the dumbest review idea ever.
Actually the review idea was that I find Lucky Star more rewatchable than AzuManga, which I must say is an awesome idea, chock full of win!
As to the question of Kagura, I agree that she is not well developed as a character. We know very little about her as she has little screen time and, like Kaorin seems to be included as a foil.
However, she is the only one who really grows and changes. This is most obvious in the scene with the tent where she apologizes for her asshattery and offers to rebuild the thing herself (to the scorn of Tomo). She also buckles down quite noticeably in her studies towards the end and seems to mellow on her competitive streak a little. The character changes over time, in this case for the better. Most of the other girls have stuff happen to them, and we find out more about their quirks...they are fleshed out far better. However, the others don't really change or grow emotionally, except perhaps Sakaki and her changes are less pronounced.
Also, how can you review Lucky Star without Lucky Channel? That shit was worse than Kimura by 1.8km.
I disagreeI feel that a 30 something man wanting to kindle a romance with his unwilling 17 year old student is worse than an amusing bipolar jaded celebrity by a full nautical mile. Now in fairness, when I sawLucky Channel first on a fan sub, my response was "WTF is THIS CRAP!?!1!". However, Sam Reigel and Stephane Sheh did a fine job with it in the dub.
I found it amusing.
A lot of people didn't.
But, it is sufficiently detached from the show proper that I'd think anyone who didn't like it could just hit "SKIP" and be none the worse. Their stupidity is not integral to the story proper except for a few gags.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Tue Jul 21 09:38:54 2009 (+QU+M)
8
Lucky Star -has- a Kimura. The difference is that it's Konata's dad. In Azumanga your sympathy is all with the poor girls, having to put up with this molester-wannabe (we hope). In Lucky Star, it's Soujirou that gets all the development, such as it is, and his "victims" never appear (possibly excepting how warped Konata turned out). It's not as bad because Soujirou never does anything (that we know about) and at least the same girls aren't subjected to him over a protracted period, but at the same time, he's no less of a perv (and quite possibly much more of one!) than Kimura ever was.
There's plenty you can criticize about Azu. It's true that Kagura is the only one who really develops. Everyone else coasts through the series, more or less exactly the same person they were before they got into high school, except with some happy memories to recall later on. And there's room for that kind of story too, of course, but it's not a literary masterpiece.
But there's the problem with comparing the two shows in the first place. With Lucky Star, the audience is expected to be "in" on the joke. Whether it's Kagami making fun of Konata for being a geek or Konata making fun of Kagami for being a norm, the fan watching the show is involved with the humor. (Which is one reason that Miyuki falls flat as a character - her jokes are flavored differently, and while "oh, look, she's done something absent-minded" is funny a few times, it can't carry the show.) Even Lucky Channel is in this mold, and this is coming from someone who is sworn to punch the hell out of Minoru Shiraishi should the opportunity arise, right?
With Azumanga, you can't be "in" on the joke because it's not joking. It's an idealized high school life, with most of the problems elided out, except for the obviously despicable guy who's SOOOO evil that he's a parody of the entire concept. Come on, they even have one wacky cool teacher and one serious cool teacher, both of whom are perfectly comfortable hanging out with them...
So comparing the shows like they're head-to-head rivals is mistaken in the first place. Sure, okay, slice-of-life. But Azu isn't a slice of YOUR life; Lucky Star is.
There's plenty you can criticize about Azu. It's true that Kagura is the only one who really develops. Everyone else coasts through the series, more or less exactly the same person they were before they got into high school, except with some happy memories to recall later on. And there's room for that kind of story too, of course, but it's not a literary masterpiece.
But there's the problem with comparing the two shows in the first place. With Lucky Star, the audience is expected to be "in" on the joke. Whether it's Kagami making fun of Konata for being a geek or Konata making fun of Kagami for being a norm, the fan watching the show is involved with the humor. (Which is one reason that Miyuki falls flat as a character - her jokes are flavored differently, and while "oh, look, she's done something absent-minded" is funny a few times, it can't carry the show.) Even Lucky Channel is in this mold, and this is coming from someone who is sworn to punch the hell out of Minoru Shiraishi should the opportunity arise, right?
With Azumanga, you can't be "in" on the joke because it's not joking. It's an idealized high school life, with most of the problems elided out, except for the obviously despicable guy who's SOOOO evil that he's a parody of the entire concept. Come on, they even have one wacky cool teacher and one serious cool teacher, both of whom are perfectly comfortable hanging out with them...
So comparing the shows like they're head-to-head rivals is mistaken in the first place. Sure, okay, slice-of-life. But Azu isn't a slice of YOUR life; Lucky Star is.
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at Tue Jul 21 20:30:59 2009 (pWQz4)
9
@ Avatar
All your points are good ones, although I don't find Konata's dad particularly disturbing. He is very much what I thought Kimura might be before the seventh disc. That is, he is socially inept, finds teenage girls attractive... and thinks out loud. We never see him stalk anyone unless one counts a wistful glance in the credits and in the later episodes we see him being a pretty good...if unconventional...father figure to Konata and Yutaka.
I think that bothered me most about Kimura was that the over the top creepy stuff towards the end (most of which IIRC was not in the trade paperback) was supposed to be funny...that left a really, really bad taste in my mouth.
I do think that Lucky Star flows somewhat better and has better characterizations but the parts that so appeal to me are going to alienate a lot of others. The post explains why I find LS more rewatchable.
I heartily agree that the series are quite different shows and comparison is more than a bit of a stretch. However, the comparison comes up frequently and I've been asked more than once how I could possibly like LS more than AzMD...hence the post. While the post is more than 140 characters long the URL is not....making my life easier.
Your last paragraph is, of course, spot on.
All your points are good ones, although I don't find Konata's dad particularly disturbing. He is very much what I thought Kimura might be before the seventh disc. That is, he is socially inept, finds teenage girls attractive... and thinks out loud. We never see him stalk anyone unless one counts a wistful glance in the credits and in the later episodes we see him being a pretty good...if unconventional...father figure to Konata and Yutaka.
I think that bothered me most about Kimura was that the over the top creepy stuff towards the end (most of which IIRC was not in the trade paperback) was supposed to be funny...that left a really, really bad taste in my mouth.
I do think that Lucky Star flows somewhat better and has better characterizations but the parts that so appeal to me are going to alienate a lot of others. The post explains why I find LS more rewatchable.
I heartily agree that the series are quite different shows and comparison is more than a bit of a stretch. However, the comparison comes up frequently and I've been asked more than once how I could possibly like LS more than AzMD...hence the post. While the post is more than 140 characters long the URL is not....making my life easier.
Your last paragraph is, of course, spot on.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at Tue Jul 21 21:46:34 2009 (V5zw/)
10
I can't figure out what it is Pete is referring to that I wrote.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at Tue Jul 21 22:40:39 2009 (+rSRq)
11
I left a comment earlier but it seems to have vanished? An expanded version if it can be seen here.
Posted by: Andy Janes at Wed Jul 22 16:48:16 2009 (lNf10)
12
Steven, I think he's confusing Kimura (the teacher) with Kagura (the student/jock).
Posted by: Wonderduck at Wed Jul 22 17:57:56 2009 (Duio9)
13
I think you're being overly harsh on Tomo. She's hyperactive and insensitive and has terrible impulse control, but she's not really evil. Her misbehavior energizes the others and helps keep them from getting into a rut.
The most overtly malicious thing that she does is come up with a plan to bully Chiyo with a harassing "home inspection." But that actually starts the chain of events that causes the group to bond as friends.
Kimura is loathsome of course, but I think even that serves a purpose in the story by reminding us of the darker side of adolescence (which is never far from the surface in this show.)
The show isn't trying to say that high school is a wonderful, carefree experience. It is saying that it is a good experience if you do it with friends, and miserable otherwise. (Even if the friends are less than perfect people.)
That is probably why Kaorin, who is only marginally attached to the group, suffers much worse than the others. (One can, of course, come up with more negative interpretations, e.g. the writers are predjudiced against lesbians.)
The most overtly malicious thing that she does is come up with a plan to bully Chiyo with a harassing "home inspection." But that actually starts the chain of events that causes the group to bond as friends.
Kimura is loathsome of course, but I think even that serves a purpose in the story by reminding us of the darker side of adolescence (which is never far from the surface in this show.)
The show isn't trying to say that high school is a wonderful, carefree experience. It is saying that it is a good experience if you do it with friends, and miserable otherwise. (Even if the friends are less than perfect people.)
That is probably why Kaorin, who is only marginally attached to the group, suffers much worse than the others. (One can, of course, come up with more negative interpretations, e.g. the writers are predjudiced against lesbians.)
Posted by: Jonathan Tappan at Thu Jul 23 21:58:58 2009 (7wFYN)
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